  |
   |
|
    
|
|
Internet World Magazine Plays a Dangerous Game With Spamby Jim Sterne
When is a spam not a spam? The answer is in the eye of the beholder Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:34:03 -0500 From: Penton@dm1-cc.com To: jsterne@targeting.com Subject: Free Internet World Subscription Sender: addr2@sgirl.super.nu Dear Business Leader, As a senior executive you are well aware of the impact of the Internet on your business. Therefore, we are especially pleased to inform you that, you've been selected to receive a FREE subscription to Internet World--The Voice of E- Business and Internet Technology. INTERNET WORLD is written for you, the professional who harnesses the unique powers of the Internet to create new worlds of value. INTERNET WORLD takes you far beyond the hype to identify the behind-the-scenes developments that are most important to your success. Your FREE subscription to Internet World is the best way to access the tools you need to put the power of the Internet to work for your business. To apply for your FREE subscription, simply click here: http://www.subscribe.penton.com/inw/1c/ --------------------------------------------------------- If you feel you have received this message in error and wish to un-subscribe you can do so by pressing the "Reply" and typing REMOVE in the subject field or send your e-mail address to: epref@dm1-cc.com Thank you in advance for your co-operation. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:14:47 -0800 To: Penton@dm1-cc.com, webmaster@penton.com, corpcomm@penton.com, vbrosnan@penton.com From: Jim Sterne Subject: Re: Free Internet World Subscription Cc: Mark Gibbs Tell me - I'm dying to know - which blithering idiot thought that Spam would be a good way to promote a magazine dedicated to using the Internet for business? Astonishing. Pathetic. Myopic. Oxymoronic! Need I continue? --------------------------------------------------------- Jim Sterne Target Marketing of Santa Barbara jsterne@targeting.com http://www.targeting.com Author, Speaker, Consultant +1 805-965-3184 Internet Marketing & Customer Service Strategy Consulting Subscribe today to the mostly monthly "Full Sterne Ahead" --------------------------------------------------------- @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Subject: Re: Free Internet World Subscription To: jsterne@targeting.com From: "Privacy" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:05:54 -0500 Dear Mr. Sterne, We would like to apologize for any inconvenience that we have caused you by sending you the email below. The list of email addresses that you were on was misrepresented to us by the list broder [sic] as being 100% opt-in to receving [sic] third party emails. We are in the process of dealing with that broker now. We have also placed you on our do-not-email list. Again, we apologize. Corporate Privacy Manager @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:57:52 -0800 To: "Privacy" From: Jim Sterne Subject: Re: Free Internet World Subscription Cc: Mark Gibbs 100% appropriate reply. Unfortunately, this means I cannot in good conscience ridicule your organization in public. Shucks. And thanks. Just one question, though. If one is an opt-in only organization, why would one need a do-not-email list? No, this is not a Zen koan, it's a serious question. If your database is opt-in only, then anybody who has not opted in belongs, by definition, in the infinitely large do-not-email list. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From: "Privacy" Subject: Re: Free Internet World Subscription To: Jim Sterne Cc: "Nina Angeloff" Sender: "Susan Lambert" Mr. Sterne, Our company, like some others, began collecting email addresses several years ago, before we were aware that the Internet was a "different animal." Postal addresses and telephone numbers have always been used in an opt-out situation -- businesses could use them until they were asked not to. But, email addresses, we now find, must be handled diffferently [sic]. So, storing your email address on a do-not-email list will insure that we don't use it, even if you gave it to us two years ago, before all the privacy safeguards were instituted. I hope this helps you understand! @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:44:54 -0800 To: "Privacy" From: Jim Sterne Subject: Re: Free Internet World Subscription Cc: "Nina Angeloff" At 09:11 AM 3/23/01, Privacy wrote: > > Mr. Sterne, > > Our company, like some others, began collecting email > addresses several years ago, before we were aware that > the Internet was a "different animal." Postal addresses > and telephone numbers have always been used in an opt-out > situation -- businesses could use them until they were > asked not to. Jim interjected: And rightfully so, as you are shouldering the cost of postal mailings. A fine old tradition. > But, email addresses, we now find, must be > handled diffferently [sic]. Indeed. > So, storing your email address on a do-not-email list > will insure that we don't use it, even if you gave it > to us two years ago, before all the privacy safeguards > were instituted. > > I hope this helps you understand! Well, let's see if I've got this right: 1. We know that sending out e-mail to people who have not specifically asked for e-mail is wrong. Check. 2. We have a database that has some old e-mail addresses in it that are indistinguishable from those that were truly opt-in. Ooops. 3. Even though we know it's wrong (see 1.), we're going to spam those poor suckers who had the misfortune of expressing interest before we knew spam was bad. Summation: Even though it's 5 to 10 times more costly to find new customers than keep old ones, we're willing to annoy our oldest customers via spam because we don't want to take the time or trouble to sort our records by date, or send out a postal offer inviting people to opt in to our e-mail announcement list. My reaction: If we were talking about Proctor and Gamble or Pepsi or Wal-Mart, I'd shake my head sadly and lament the loss of logic, civility and the long-term view in corporate America today. But, ladies and gentlemen, this is Internet World magazine we're talking about! Allow me to quote your own publication: --------------------------- http://www.internetworld.com/011501/01.15.01realitycheck.jsp January 15, 2001 Fast Forward Reality Check Don't Follow the Leader-Be One When it comes to e-mail marketing or any data collection to which consumers are asked to "opt in" online, standards are needed that will significantly raise the bar above the present level of protection. Companies doing business related to advertising and e-mail marketing on the Net, such as DoubleClick, might be thinking, "We already abide by commonly accepted industry standards." In fact, we've heard them say as much in the past. But accepting the current standard-for example, single opt-in-means being satisfied with the lowest common denominator, and that bar is set woefully too low. --------------------------- Journalist: Heed Thyself! @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From: "Privacy" Subject: Re: Free Internet World Subscription To: Jim Sterne Cc: Mark Gibbs Sender: "Susan Lambert" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:31:44 -0500 Mr. Sterne, We collect email privacy preferences in a variety of ways: o Through direct mail o Through faxes o Through telemarketing. Records with old email addresses are being updated by asking them if XX email address is still valid, and then asking them about the various ways that we would like to email them. The overwhelming normal means of communciation [sic] between Penton and its customers is through direct mail and telephone, so our updating process for email privacy does not need to involve emailing the person. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:16:25 -0800 To: "Privacy" From: Jim Sterne Subject: Re: Free Internet World Subscription Cc: Mark Gibbs If your "updating process for email privacy does not need to involve emailing the person," then why did I get an e-mail? Why are you sending e-mail message to e-mail addresses that have not gone through the direct mail/fax/telemarketing process? And, please, call me Jim. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Subject: Re: Free Internet World Subscription To: "Kwafo Anoff" Cc: "Nina Angeloff" From: "Privacy" Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:06:56 -0500 Kwafo, It might be a good idea if you were to respond to Mr. Jim Sterne's email below. I have corresponded with him on this subject for the past couple of days, but he still needs more information. Could you please explain to him how you came to email him? Thanks. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Subject: Internet World To: jsterne@targeting.com Cc: "Nina Angeloff" From: "Kwafo Anoff" Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:38:48 -0500 Hi Mr. Sterne, This is in response to your email regarding the recent subscription request you received from Internet World. I'd first like to apologize for any inconvenience caused. I'd also be shirking my responsibility if I don't explain how we came by your email address. To serve our advertisers better, we periodically send out promotions to potential subscribers to strengthen our demographics. In doing so, we solicit lists from reputable list brokers to assist us in list selection for such promotions. That's the reason for the recent email that you received. We rented what we were guaranteed was an opt-in ONLY email list from Ecommerce Network through The Lake Group in New York. Unfortunately, this list had your address and that's why you received Internet World's solicitation. I can assure you that, we don't knowingly rent opt-out names nor do we condone SPAM in any way, shape or form. Again, please accept my apologies and we'll refrain from sending you any more email. Thanks Kwafo Anoff Circulation Director Internet World P-203 559-2803 F-203 559-2813 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 20:01:55 -0800 To: "Kwafo Anoff" From: Jim Sterne Subject: Re: Internet World Cc: "Nina Angeloff" At 07:38 AM 3/28/01, Kwafo Anoff wrote: > Hi Mr. Sterne, > > This is in response to your email regarding the recent > subscription request you received from Internet World. > I'd first like to apologize for any inconvenience caused. Jim responded: I appreciate your sincerity in this matter. > I'd also be shirking my responsibility if I don't > explain how we came by your email address. And I'd be shirking mine, if I didn't bring you up to speed on the conversation so far. Allow me: [everything written above was reproduced for Kwafo] > To serve our advertisers better, we periodically send > out promotions to potential subscribers to strengthen > our demographics. In doing so, we solicit lists from > reputable list brokers to assist us in list selection > for such promotions. That's the reason for the recent > email that you received. We rented what we were guaranteed > was an opt-in ONLY email list from Ecommerce Network > through The Lake Group in New York. Unfortunately, this > list had your address and that's why you received Internet > World's solicitation. Not surprisingly, I have never had any communication of any sort with either Ecommerce Network nor The Lake Group in New York. A quick visit to The Lake Group's home page reveals a proud membership in the DMA. The DMA's Marketing Online Privacy Principles and Guidance at: http://www.the-dma.org/library/guidelines/onlineguidelines.shtml#D clearly states an opt-out approach: "On-line e-mail solicitations should be clearly identified as solicitations and should disclose the marketer's identity. Marketers using e-mail should furnish consumers with whom they do not have an established business relationship with notice and a mechanism through which they can notify the marketer that they do not wish to receive future on-line solicitations." Yes, The Lake Group claims their lists are "100% opt-in," but when one lies down with dogs, as they say, one gets up with fleas. One of those fleas seems to be the Ecommerce Network. I may not be the best searcher online, but a review of pages at Yahoo, Alta Vista and Google returned no such listing connected to an e-mail marketing organization. The Lake Group's Web site also does not list them as a source. The first list: The Lake Group lists on their site is AlphaCraze.com. AlphaCraze is an e-tail site. Their privacy policy language includes the following: E-mail Lists From time to time, AlphaCraze.com will send e-mails to customers regarding specials, promotions and added features to our site. We respect your privacy and will certainly honor your request to not receive e-mails of this nature from AlphaCraze.com. You are asked on the checkout section of our website as to whether or not you would like to receive e-mails. However, their order form makes an important error: AlphaCraze NewsLetter As a valued AlphaCraze customer, we would like to keep you informed of updates and special offers through our website and select Alphacraze advertisers. Would you like to subscribe to this? [x]Yes []No Notice that the default is a pre-checked "Yes" radio button. This, by definition, is opt-out. The Economist is another offender: User Choices All registration and order forms provide users with a series of choices as regards further promotional activity, forms of communication and third party processing. When filling out order or registration forms on Economist.com, users should indicate whether they are receptive to the use of e-mail to inform them of further Economist Group promotional literature. If you are keen to be kept informed of further Economist.com products as well as technical/functional developments related to our website and on-line services then you should untick the e-mail opt-in box. "Unticking" a pre-check box is opt-out by definition. In case you don't agree, the Economist themselves use the very word in the next paragraphs: If you don't wish to hear from these companies, please untick the appropriate box on the registration form to opt out of such activity. We will occasionally allow other similar but reputable organisations to contact you. If you don't wish to hear from these companies, please untick the appropriate box on the registration form to opt out of such activity. The Lake Group also lists ICB Toll Free Newsletter as a source of e-mail addresses. I find this fascinating as their registration page begins with: Your name and contact information will not be divulged rented leased sold shared whispered etc.) Somebody's sitting too close to the cathode ray tube. They also list Postage4Free whose links from their home page to their Privacy Policy are inoperative. > I can assure you that, we don't knowingly rent opt-out > names nor do we condone SPAM in any way, shape or form. > Again, please accept my apologies and we'll refrain > from sending you any more email. Your apologies are welcome and accepted, but several questions are left open. The one I find most interesting remains: In a world of double opt-in only, why does one need a do-not-email database? And now, Kwafo, you know why they passed me along to you. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ As of April 10, almost two weeks after sending the above, I had not heard back from Kwafo nor anybody else at Penton.com. I *did*, however hear back from the Lake Group: @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From: Vincent Lemma To: 'Jim Sterne' Subject: RE: Ecommerce Network Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:04:22 -0500 Jim, Unfortunately I do not represent the Ecommerce Network's e-mail list, I am not to sure who does, I wish I could help. What targets are yuou looking for we represent some other lists that may have your audience. Let me know if I can help. Thanks Vince @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ And why did that original message come from an island in the South Pacific Ocean, east of Tonga??? Sigh |
211 E. Victoria Street, Suite E
Santa Barbara, CA 93101
+1 (805) 965-3184 phone
+1 (805) 965-8687 fax
www.targeting.com
(c) 1994-2006 Target Marketing of Santa Barbara